A little confusion there I think, it's the way I put it across.
The manifold i've bee offered is an ally manifold but it came of a car with a cast iron head, or so i've been told.

No problem if it is an ally manifold Mackem, it was a good chance to discuss the advantages of a cast iron one.

The only thing that is really important is whether it was designed for a Solex Compound twin choke. If so it will need to be modified as discussed to take the 32/36 DGV. Ostensibly it should be the same manifold as fitted to the Alpine 1592cc engine.

Go for it.
Best Regards Eddie

No problem, i've ordered the carb, should be here mid week, just need a manifold and i'll report back with results

Eddie I have been following your posts with great interest.
The 32/36 DGV 5A appears to be the answer to the carburation for this set up as it will accept the linkage without modification and allow the kickdown to be fitted as per original. My query is with the intake manifold set up. The series 1V cast iron inlet has larger ports than the Holbay head. and will interupt the flow of gasses to the head. Is the solution to open up the head porting on the Holbay, I understand that this may well affect the tickover, whilst opening up the ports will give more top end power. I feel that with an auto the idle is an important factor. Perhaps there is a suitable inlet manifold available somewhere. Any ideas.

Eddie

For cast iron please read alloy

Peter

There is a good reason for the small ports on the Holbay head, think back to inertial ramming. Small ports mean high port velocity. This gets the mixture flowing at high speed with good charging of the cylinders during overlap. Add the Solex manifold to that mix and you have a port mismatch.
BUT, I argue that this is almost the ideal situation ( DV reveals this in his book )provided you can do two things.
1. The manifold locating rings must be used to ensure the ports align correctly. This will mean just opening out the entrance to the port enough to machine a small seat for the locating rings.
2. Blend the enlarged mouth of the port such that within half an inch the port is smoothly back to it's original size. The deep ports throat is untouched.

What will happen now is that the mixture will smoothly negotiate the joint between manifold and head without seeing any edges or corners. When it reaches the smaller port throat it will be squeezed into a smaller area and will accelerate very markedly.
THIS IS A VERY GOOD THING !!!!!!!! High velocity mixture means more torque. Big ported heads are a complete waste of time. Holbay knew this believe me.
Precisely how the venturii in a carb works by squeezing the gases into a smaller diameter. Flow rates will actually improve because of this.
The M90 Eaton supercharger system on my 1275 A+ engined Morris uses this type of layout using the same type of locating rings. You can see the ports reduce in size as you follow them into the head.

With the DGV 5A carb jetted as discussed earlier in the thread, I predict that the throttle response will be something else, in fact with an auto box and all that torque you will be unbeatable at the traffic light Grand Prix.
You are definitely on track, in my opinion.
Best Regards Eddie

Eddie
Thanks very much for your considered reply. Its on roughly the same line as my initial thoughts to gently open up the ports without going too far in, I didnt think of the rings though. I have ordered Izzards book and just waiting delivery and will have a good read and follow any recomendations. I have read it in the past but that was many moons ago. The engine will be going in in a few months and I will source a carb and get the machining done for the rings. The easing I can probably cope with myself. Thanks again for a thought provoking thread, Im looking forward to hearing of the final results of all this concentrated brain power.

Best wishes Peter

My pleasure Peter, in fact this is probably a good place in this thread to tell you that we ( Alpine Developments ) are actively engaged in discussion with a Foundry firm with a view to producing the New Zealand manifold ( from now on known as the NZ manifold ) for potential commercial production. I intend to use my car as the test bed, for the prototype if we get that far. The firm involved are actively involved in motorsport and small production runs and seem very interested.
We will report all progress in this thread.
The crucial point as ever will be cost and projected numbers to be made.

Although a highly desirable item for all of Rootes light car range this type of prediction is almost impossible to gauge so it is likely the first batch ( after testing completed ) will be probably small. If anyone is interested in acquiring one, please post a reply so we will have a little idea of how much demand there is likely to be.
Incidentally the appearance of the NZ manifold owes much to a design by Oselli for the 28/36 DCD on the A series.

It was called the Oselli Torquemaster and was probably the best manifold, in terms of flow and performance, not to mention popularity amongst racers, ever produced.
I think we could do with some of that..............................and what a carb to put on it, brand new over the counter.
For once the Alpine has a carb it has always deserved, now for the manifold.

Best Regards Eddie

Eddie

You can put me down for one, I assume they will be similar to the Carl Christiansen one. Presumably it will be too complicated at this stage to start talking about a Holbay one as an alternative. I would have thought that there is likely to be a good market in the non Holbay in the States for these
Good luck with the development

Peter

SAOC 5723

OK Peter, you've got one reserved. Yes we're using the Carl Christiansen picture of the New Zealand manifold as our template. The great advantage of this is the flow looks to be about perfect, the height of the manifold will give extra bonnet clearance ( things are still too tight with the air intake on the stock manifold ) and it should be fine on a 1600, 1725 and Holbay. We are undecided yet about all the details but it should be a universal fitting that is tweakable for individual requirements.

The American market won't be able to use it because LH drive cars have the steering box on that side, which is why the poor sods have to use that log manifold which was designed to bring the carb much nearer the cylinder head to clear the box. Take a look at this...............

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So count yourselves lucky you live in the UK for once.
More news as it happens though.
Best Regards Eddie

3 nights later and i'm finally up to date with the thread..... but very impressed with a slight sense of enlightenment

Unfortunately my personal experiences of cars have been in a shadow of neglect rather than nurture but in three weeks flat the Alpine has already become a part of the family and i'd move it indoors with us if I could! The car is in average shape but we have a long way to go before car and owners are happy

In isolating the 3 main project areas of the car.... as with most owners, i'm sure, we have highlighted horsepower as one of the areas and this thread has been fascinating to read through ..... and while I feel extremely inferior I understand just how valuable these threads and posts are and will be in the future... many thanks

so..... the 32/36 DGV it looks like it shall be ...... and that Apollo looks very fetching in that cleaner than clean engine bay as well............. and as such we would also be extremely interested in the manifold as well Eddie..... as long as it isnt going to cause us to starve!

I have a question if I may..... as combined with some of my current reading material which covers restoring carburettors I notice that 32/36 trade on ebay is lively... as are 2nd hand carbs in general................... reading your comments on used carbs Eddie I see that you arent a fan and I was wondering if it is worth us purchasing a used 32/36 or not and what the pitfalls are in doing so............. I have a feeling that a stripping and restoration process would be extremely good for me to learn about carbs anyway but I could well be dissuaded if it is likely to be a doomed project

great to hear about the New Zealand Manifold project ... good luck with it

Put me down for one as well Eddie, must be worth a try!

Quote "The American market won't be able to use it because LH drive cars have the steering box on that side, which is why the poor sods have to use that log manifold which was designed to bring the carb much nearer the cylinder head to clear the box."

Eddie Isn't this similar to the New Zealand manifold,

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I think thats what they are using in the USA nowadays.

Pete

OK guys, thanks for the enthusiasm. The Foundry company that we are in dialogue with are an old established family business that have been around for a long time. They are delightful to deal with and have had longstanding associations with motorsport. On top of that they are based in Wolverhampton. The chances are that they used to make parts for the Alpine. Therefore I feel we've hit paydirt. We will be meeting up with them in the nexr fortnight or so.

Ok if we had a wishlist for the NZ manifold it would look like this..........
1. Constructed of cast iron
2. Chrome Plated. Not polished though. Looks are not the important point.
3. Internally coated with thermal insulation compound.
4. All smooth internal passages, no corners or edges anywhere.
Those of you who have read "The Bible " will know why.

In the real world this wishlist will probably get pruned, I'm assuming you're all trying to feed families as well. But I'm quietly optimistic.

The second point I'd like to make is that trying to recondition 2nd hand carbs is not a great way to save money. Firstly they are really precision pieces of equipment built to incredibly fine tolerances. Anyone who has a brilliantly set up 32/36 DGV will not want to sell it.
On the other hand someone who has butchered one probably will.
By the time you have replaced everything, like the throttle shaft bushes, (you were going to do that weren't you? ) and the needle valve, and replaced all the incorrect jet sizes with the right ones. Then cleaned out all the drillings with carb cleaner you won't be far short of what a new one costs. Then you assemble it all on your car, and spin the starter and nothing happens, after which you will feel bloody marvellous.

Or you could take one out of a box, drool at all the beautiful cad plated linkage parts. Mount it lovingly on the manifold, turn the starter and hear it burst into life almost before the pinion has engaged. Cost almost the same.................end result..................bliss.

Truth is these carbs are in real terms cheap as chips. I paid £75 for my Weber 28/36 DCD in 1976. The 32/36DGV 5A is around £ 160 post free, a mere 33 years later. That is some difference. I was earning £144 a month then at ICI. So the DCD was a fortnights salary.
The DGV also makes the 28/36 look silly by comparison and that is no small feat.
Buying 2nd hand is pointless, it will never be a patch on a brand new one.
If you do manage it, why not become a carburettor specialist for a living.
I'll tell you I wouldn't, I don't know nearly enough about this arcane subject to even try.
Remember Chris's words about the Solex and the fact that the workshop manual has 14 pages devoted to how that works. Well the 32/36 would probably have about 30 pages. Just looking at the exploded diagram is mind numbing. Tall order.
Last words on this subject is from an observer of life.
Every car enthusiast has at least one broken carburettor in their garage which didn't get fixed when that little screw dropped out of position after the thread stripped. Or why create a headache when the answer is right in front of you.
The fact that a new DGV will probably net you 48 MPG might persuade you that maybe a new one is cheaper in the long run.

Best Regards Eddie